16 part 2: The Impact of Global Logistics on the Subscriber Experience
Nick Agnetti and Jason Rowland continue their conversation with John Roman from BattlBox and John Haji from SubSummit dive deep into the unique logistics and customer experience challenges facing subscription box companies. From the importance of delivery timing and tracking visibility to how post-checkout anxiety impacts churn, the panel shares firsthand insights from years of experience in the subscription space. They explore how expectations differ between traditional eCommerce and subscription models, why synchronized delivery matters for mystery and discovery boxes, and the critical role of DDP (Delivered Duties Paid) in global shipping. Plus, they discuss the power of community in shaping brand loyalty and how transparency can turn shipping hiccups into opportunities for trust.
Whether you’re launching a subscription box or scaling one globally, this is a must-listen conversation on making the post-purchase experience a competitive advantage.
John Haji | LinkedIn
John is a subscription guru and a serial entrepreneur with a decade's worth of experience in the subscription space. He co-founded SubSummit in 2016, the first and only conference devoted exclusively to those who work in or alongside the subscription commerce industry. SubSummit connects today's industry leaders, innovators, and partners who are driving the rapid evolution of how consumers discover, buy, and experience new products.
His background in think tanks paired with his entrepreneurial spirit has positioned him for success within the subscription industry. John has a passion for creative thinking, strategy, design, eCommerce, and more. Prior to starting SubSummit, he also co-founded and served as COO of Gentleman's Box, the first premier subscription service for men which was acquired by Rove Companies in 2020.
As a father of three, John balances his professional and personal life with grace and humor. He has been recognized by Crain's Detroit as one of the "40 Under 40" award recipients in 2019 for his outstanding achievements and contributions.
John Roman | LinkedIn
After leading several successful sales organizations in the telecommunications and software space for almost a decade, John began investing in companies predominately in the eCommerce arena. A college friend was launching BattlBox in early 2015 and John knew he had to be involved, so he invested in it, offering advisement in a limited capacity.
BattlBox started to see exponential growth and the demand for John’s time increased. In early 2016, John made the decision to step away from his then sales leadership role with a software company to join the BattlBox team in a full-time capacity. In July 2019, The BattlBox Group acquired Carnivore Club, an artisanal meat subscription box.
BattlBox continued to see exponential growth with the strategy of leading with content and community. This eventually lead to their Netflix original series ‘Southern Survival’ in July 2020.
In October of 2021, BattlBox and Carnivore Club were acquired by Emerge Brands for$18.95M. In April 2023, John lead a group that purchased back BattlBox from Emerge for $7.17M.
John currently serves as Chief Executive Officer for BattlBox.
Transcript
You know, I subscribe to a protein shake called Cachava. It only lasts 30 days.
Nick Agnetti:Show us the stuff, man. Show what you got going on. I'm just kidding. Go ahead.
John Haji:Yeah. That's for another day. That's for another time.
Voiceover:This is Outside the Box with Asendia USA, a podcast educating US based brands, marketplaces and e tailers on international shipping topics and how they can expand their global e commerce footprint.
Nick Agnetti:Welcome back to part two of our episode talking about the subscriber experience from Outside the box with Asendia USA podcast with our special guests John Hodgi and John Roman.
Jason Rowland:So one of the things Nick and I were talking about in preparing for to meet with you guys today was on subscription boxes specifically.
So I, well, the way I think about it, if I put an order in, I'm working on my car in the, in the, in the yard here and I need to get a part for a car and I'm waiting on that part to come. Delivery time matters to me. Delivery day matters to me. How that that item sticks to that SLA matters to me. Right.
But when it comes to a subscription box model where I get a delivery once a month of 30 things that are going to last me throughout the month, or, or if it's more of a battle box method where it's, you know, 10 or 15, 20 items that are now going to add to my repertoire of items for survival or for camping or whatever it is, the delivery date might not matter as much there. Right. Because it's saying I'm just getting my monthly stipend, I'm getting my monthly subscription, I'm adding it to my repertoire. Things I have.
John Roman:It 100% matters.
Jason Rowland:Yeah, it 100% matters. It does. So do you see more of. I guess the question is from the subscriber space, what matters more for you guys? Is it time? Is it delivery day?
Is it visibility? Is it tracking? So what is the.
If you had to make your perfect scenario, what are the things that you would be able to provide to your customers for post purchase experience?
John Roman:Yeah, so, so, so time and time and tracking. Visibility, right? Yeah. So we, so yes, it's the membership that we do is a subscription box. So it's, it's ends up about seven to eight items.
But it's the, it's a drop model. Everyone is getting the same thing. So time and delivery matter greatly because it's the model of discovery and mystery.
Everybody needs to get their box around the same time because if someone gets it wildly late, the surprise is ruined. Part of that Experience of finding out what's in the latest drop is lost. So it matters greatly. So timing delivery tracking.
I think consumers are typically, if they have the information, it's acceptable if something goes awry. Right. If tracking is taking an extra two days, but they have the visibility on tracking and what's going on.
I think in today's day and age, they're not going to blame the brand immediately. Right. There's a little bit of leniency if the information is at least being provided.
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Jason Rowland:Yeah. What kind of impact do you guys see that delivery experience having on your subscriber Churn. Right.
So there must be, you know, people that drop in, drop out based on one bed experience, maybe. So do you see that people have a tolerance for it or is it kind of, I gave it one shot and now I'm out.
John Roman:So, you know, we've had ebbs and flows through the 10 years we've done this on what that experience looks like. It's a great experience now. But I can, I can say with certainty when the experience was not great. It was a dumpster fire. Right.
Churn was bad, no one was coming back, retention was not good. And it goes down to, you know, John Haji and I were chatting about it yesterday. You kind of hinted on it. It's the visibility, the experience.
I remember there was, there was a decent period of time where they would get the initial scan when it hit Canada from the U.S. and then they wouldn't get scans at all. And if we get a final scan when it was basically on last mile and out for delivery.
So you're talking, if you're talking east coast to west coast of Canada, you might be talking four days easy.
Nick Agnetti:Oh my gosh.
Jason Rowland:At least.
Nick Agnetti:Yes.
John Roman:Yeah. You can only deal with that for so much. Right. And then you're like, well, why, why does Amazon get it to me so quickly and give me visibility.
John Haji:Yeah, you have to remember too, like when somebody checks out on a product, like the whole post checkout anxiety kicks in right now they're in this like waiting zone. They're like, okay, I'm waiting for my package. So it's Extremely important. And to allude to like what John Roman was saying.
Like especially for the boxes, the subscription boxes that are discovering delight. Timing is so important.
I can, I, when I was running gentleman's box, I can you know, count endless amount of times or somebody to receive a product and be wearing that product. Right. And showcasing that product on their social, social pages tagging gentleman's box.
And the consumer who hasn't received the box yet sees the product and is like, like I, I want that. That looks so good or why hasn't mine arrived kind of thing. Right. They don't care and they don't understand that maybe this person lives over here.
This person lives here. They just care that like how did that person receive it? And I haven't received it just yet. Yeah.
So for discovering delay, it's, it's just, it's just so important like delivery times. Even, even if you think about other products outside of the subscription box space, your health and beauty, food and beverage.
You know, I subscribe to a protein shake called Cachava. It's. It only lasts.
Nick Agnetti:Show us the stuff, man. Show what you got going. No, I'm just kidding. Go ahead.
John Haji:Sorry. Yeah, that's for another day. That's for another time. Oh, oh, okay. Like it's the servings, right? It's 30, 30 day servings. Right.
So when I get to 30 days, like I'm expecting my, I'm actually, I'm expecting before 30 days to hit for my Travis Hole. All right, Right. So delivery is super important in the subscription recurring space.
Jason Rowland:Yeah, that's great.
Nick Agnetti:Oh, go ahead. Jason. Sorry.
Jason Rowland:No, I was just going to say that one of the other things that feeds into that customer experience is from the company standpoint is this DDU DDP conversation. Right. Of going back and forth. So Nick, do you want to get into that a little bit with the guys?
Nick Agnetti:I can, yeah. I also want to thank you guys for. Well, I want to, I want to go back. So one of the things that I just.
Because being so closely involved with the, in the subscription, you know, box or subscription space for so long is the impact of community on, on those post purchase experiences. Right. You guys touched on it. John.
I remember intimately working on some of the gentleman's box stuff and just how like you're right if like one guy, if, if a couple of these influencers posted, you know, some stuff and, and there were issues in certain parts of, you know, whether it was the country in the US or foreign where they weren't getting it, you know, as your logistics partner at the time. And we're years, you know, removed at this point. But, you know, we would hear about it or your other partners would hear about it. Right.
And so I guess how important is, you know, and I know that things have changed over the years, but in that community involvement, how important is that still today? Or is it still as important as it was previously?
John Haji:I mean, community is what builds the brand. Yeah. Right. So it's, it's very important.
I think, I think Roman, you had put out a post on LinkedIn most recently speaking to the community and like your, the consumers that subscribe to you and how that helps tremendously build the brand. Right. And I think it's extremely important in order to have longevity as a brand, you need to focus on building a strong community.
John Roman:100%.
Nick Agnetti:Okay. So Jason, you had brought up DDU versus DDP.
ly we are at the point now in:You can use it interchangeably. Right. And so we talk and ultimately it's going come down to customer experience. Now with that.
There's a little bit of a unique thing going on with subscription boxes because they hold multiple products, you know, for the most part, you know, on, on a. Whatever the cadence is monthly, quarterly, twice a year, whatever it is. Can you guys talk about whether, you know, talk about your.
And I know, John Roman, you've got a unique experience today where you're actually doing in country fulfillment or John Haji, talk about some of your stuff from the past perhaps, or even people that maybe you've consulted with on, you know, the DDU versus DD DDP aspect. If you don't mind kind of riffing on that for a little bit, that would be, that would be helpful.
John Haji:Yeah, let me kick it off.
Nick Agnetti:Yeah, please.
John Haji:Yeah.
So I mean, I'll go ahead and put my gentleman's box hat on first and talk about when we were initially shipping internationally and we learned very quickly that we needed to have DDP versus DDU. Right. Imagine subscribing to a box that was $25 a month and then being told you owe $20. Right.
John Roman:Yes.
John Haji:To actually pick up that box. Right. So. And not to mention the delays that it causes.
And sometimes the consumer doesn't even get notification properly from customs to let them know that their, their package is waiting.
And if they did, maybe they miss it and so there's a lot that goes into, by the way, the first delivery especially is the first impression you want the peace of mind and predictability that it's going to arrive after the purchase. And so DDU is very, very important. Ddp, I'm sorry, is very, very important for brands to have.
Like, it reduces the customer service load because again, customer, because customers aren't writing in as often asking where their boxes are.
So that helps with the company as a whole to kind of focus on other things and not have to be overloaded with a bunch of questions on where's my box, where's my box? Or where's my package? Brands that offer ddp, they have the competitive edge, plain and simple.
John Roman:Yeah, I mean, so speaking from experience and I feel like John and I probably had some back and forth on this, you know, many, many years ago as we were, we were both like, you know, going down the international route for the first time. You know, there were, there was a small period of time where we did ddu.
We quickly, quickly, quickly found out that was not, that was not the right path. Right. I mean, I think John illustrated it perfect where you know, they spent $25 and they, they think that they're all in.
They think they're done, they're waiting on their package, they're excited.
They, they finally made the decision to pull the trigger on this brand and now they're going to get the product and they are told they need to pay another 20 bucks. Like, it's just, it's, it's, that's a horrible, horrible experience. Right.
And it's, it's definitely tough when you're, and some of the, the ratios are sometimes like that. Right. So it's, it's really tough. Even though it might not be the brand's fault per se, the lines are definitely blurry there. Right.
Like, because especially if, if they bought from someone else and not had that experience, I mean, it's quick intuition. Well, it must be the brand's decision on how they sent it. Right. I don't think you can recover from it.
And from, from a, you know, are they going to repurchase? It's, it's highly unlikely. It's probably, you know, single digit repurchase rates. Once that happens, obviously DDP is, is, is the way to go.
Just sets proper expectations and it sets, sets the customer up for, for hopefully a good experience.
Nick Agnetti:I couldn't agree more.
than it was let's say back in:It's, it's about 12 years now when back let's say the first half of my 10 years so far, everybody wanted DDU and, and really people weren't really doing a whole lot with ddp. Right. And in general I would just say but quickly it was.
We continue to evolve as an industry and I say we meaning E commerce merchants all the way to service providers and everything else realizing that customer experience is so vitally important for continued growth and recurring revenue and everything else that having that all in landed cost delivery option, delivery duties pay. So there's no surprises at the door. Us as Americans are a little spoiled that we typically don't get tax.
We don't get the A card that says hey, I'm so glad you ordered from Company A but in order for me to give you Company A's box, you actually have to pay us another like 10 or 20 US dollars. We'd be like what are you talking about?
Yeah, like well we're, we're certainly not getting Company A's box anymore because that, that's not going to happen. You know.
John Roman:So I post about it online. Didn't complaining.
Nick Agnetti:Oh you, you. Oh yeah, you would, you probably would.
John Roman:Like if that was the experience, right?
Nick Agnetti:I mean it would be on Queso, it'd be on LinkedIn and you'd have an AI generated image. We'd see the whole thing, we'd see it all, we'd see it all over the place. So.
And I guess what I'm trying to speak to is that you know, when you look at if you're first starting and even if you're let's say in that small, medium sized range, right, and you're still doing DDU if you're selling maybe a pair of socks. Okay, we can talk about ddu but if you're on a recurring basis, right.
But if you're doing anything where you're truly invested in building on customer experience, DDP is 100% the way to go.
Things have advanced greatly when it comes to, you know, the networks that are available for you to use these days as well compared to what it was, let's say 10 years ago. So there's many options available. And Jason, I'm glad you brought it up I think it's. It is very, very important, even on the.
And I'd say even maybe more so on the subscription box space than some others. Right.
So going back to talking about, you know, working on your car and the Amazon mentality, right, Sometimes, you know, people are so excited to receive the products that they order, especially if it's something that, you know, they're just. And maybe it's not a car part that they need, but something that they're really excited to put on their car. Right. It's that experience.
And then you don't want it to be a poor experience just actually receiving the product.
John Haji:So.
Nick Agnetti:All right, we're going to pivot. Jason, are you ready for this?
John Haji:Yeah. You sure?
Jason Rowland:I'm ready for everything. Everything.
Nick Agnetti:Thanks, everybody, for tuning in to part two of our episode titled Impact of Global Logistics on the subscriber experience from outside the box with the Sendia USA podcast. Stay tuned for part three.
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